Ever read this:
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
Although I must say that I am very disturbed that the President can order the assassination of American citizens (perhaps I should say anyone) with no kind of check on that power.
Been a long time since I slept peaceably in my bed at night, it was October 7, 2006 to be precise. Before that, it was way back in time. Can’t say how it would be if I lived in, say, Africa, Syria, mainland China, N. Korea, Russia.
I imagine the US President always has had the power to order the assassination of American citizens, have not read the law, in certain situations. Which brings the question, who gave him that power? Congress, yes? And who elected the Congress who gave him that power? We the People, right?
I do not believe you are correct. It would be interesting to determine the source of the presidential power. As I recall there were curbs placed on US assassinations after the revelations of the CIA plots to assassinate Castro. So something has changed since then.
After sending mine to you, I saw I had left out some words.
I think US presidents always have ordered wet work, regardless of legality.
I understand something changed recently allowing the president to do it legally in some situations? If so, do you know what enabled that? Was it a new law? A new fiat?
If it came to be, who went along with it coming to be, or passed the law letting it come to be – Congress?
And who elected Congress? We the People.
Yes I think it is worth researching how the change came about.
Whether Presidents did it before re US citizens I am unsure of.
But there certainly were times we at least tried to assassinate foreign leaders.
Waco, Texas – Branch Davidians
Kent State – students protesting expansion of Vietnam war into Cambodia, wasn’t it?
Not quite on topic, but pretty close.
Add to that Ruby Ridge.
There are rather convincing reports that before his presidency LBJ used a man named Mac Wallace to kill at least one investigator. No question that Wallace existed and was indeed a murderer. My thoughts on LBJ are so mixed. Caro’s books show how corrupt he was but his civil rights legislation was so important for our country.
Now that you dragged LBJ into it, I’ll add Vietnam. I remember watching him promising on TV that he would never send American boys to die in a war in Asia.
I read something maybe two years ago now, making a case for LBJ having ordered the murder of President Kennedy. Don’t recall the details now, but the sense of what I remember was LBJ felt slighted by Kennedy. I have read Kennedy got in dutch with bad folks when he chilled on Vietnam and more than chilled at Bay of Pigs.
There are indeed many people who believe LBJ was behind the JFK hit, altho I do not think I do. BUT I recently read that after the assassination Jackie made tape recordings with Arthur Schlesinger that were to be sealed for 50 years after her death but will now be released ths fall. According to a British paper, Jackie told Schlesinger she thought LBJ was behind her husband’s murder–which may not prove anything since it was only her suspicion.
LBJ certainly had motive. He was under criminal investigation at the time and many reports say JFK intended to dump him from the ticket.
Bye for now–more later–off to work.
I am in a new book that will be reviewed in Solares next Sunday, I will send you the draft, then quit. The reviewer by the way is a proponent of the LBJ did it theory.
I think I explained before that Solares Hill book reviews are a sore subject with me. The novel Mark Howell reviewed, only to have Tom Tuell kill the review, was written by something far bigger and beyond me. After I the book was done falling out of me, I was sure it was my ticket to a normal life, from the making money off it sense. Ha!
Once upon a time I married a woman who had been one of the students at Kent State, sitting in a protest circle on the ground, when the Ohio National Guard opened fire on them. Those not shot got up and ran with the National Guardsmen in pursuit, shooting. When the feeling pod of students veered right, she veered left and nobody chased her. The National Guardsmen were not prosecuted. She never got over it. Never trusted government or police again. Can’t say I blamed her. She was the muse for the novel Mark reviewed. I never saw what he wrote.
I continue to see Vietnam as a mortal wound to the soul of America. That failed military (corporate) misadventure provided the fuel for all future American foreign military adventures via unconscious attempt to atone by winning a war of substance. GW Bush was as bad as LBJ. Obama joined that infamous duo when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize while waging two GW Bush wars – unconscionable.
Personally, the angels who ride hard on my hide and soul scare me a lot worse than the US Government scares me. They really roughed me up today, which is Father’s Day (2012). What ever possesses people to want to be close to God is beyond my comprehension.
It also became beyond the comprehension of the woman who became the muse for the novel. The angels pulverized us, and when neither of us could take any more, they sent me to the Keys from Maui. That was late 2000.
I’ve been mostly marinating here ever since, although there were a few adventures in North Georgia, Birmingham, and a few other places I’d like to forget.
I am so sorry for bringing up a sore subject.
What do you think of this quote by Aeschylus? It was a favorite of RFK:
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget
falls drop by drop upon the heart
until, in our own despair, against our will,
comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.
It struck me that this seems so close to what you write about the angels beating you up?
It is certainly an interesting quote. I too have some very deep pains, including a bitter divorce and my daughter being estranged from me.
A bit too interesting. I learned in law school, and again when I clerked for a US District Judge, and even again when I practiced law, that due process means you get to face your accusers and put on your own evidence and be represented by your own lawyer and you get to do it in a tribunal, legal or administrative, provided by law, and if you don’t like the outcome, you can appeal to a court of law.To me, this is not about due process at all. It is about war. The American President has broader powers during wartime, if war has been formally declared. Did Congress approve the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did Congress approve a general war against Al Qaeda? Those are relevant questions. As is the Geneva Convention. Is the US still bound by it?
All tillitating, but in reality, Tim, it goes back to what I said in the beginning. I wager American presidents going way back have ordered clandestine hits on people deemed to be national threats, be they foreign or American citizens. I think it is naive to believe otherwise. Does that make it right? Probably not. But it is a realistic perspective.
Holder seems focused on Al Quaeda, not on, say, the KKK, Neo Nazis or the New Black Panthers. I don’t agree with Holder, but every Republican in America probably does, if not openly, then secretly.
And that’s the rub, isn’t it? President Obama is just as big, if not even a bigger hawk than was GW Bush. Obama has trumped the Republican’s strongest card: National Defense. Leaving them hollering about the economy. Whether Republicans like it or not, they and GW Bush handed Obama a serious economic mess.
Yeah, Obama made it worse, but don’t you think John McCain also would have made it worse? Maybe not in the same ways Obama made it worse, but in Republican ways McCain would have made it worse. Deep down inside I bet Viet vet prisoner of war hero McCain loves Eric Holder and Barack Obama’s pursuit of Al Qaeda afar and near.
Oh, Sloan, I know just what you mean!! Ditto!! More on the political issues later. I look forward to reading GMFK every a.m.