Fallout from George Zimmerman’s bail revoked by trial judge post at goodmorningbirmingham.com
Beautiful Things (her email handle):
OMG, how ridiculous. Your defense of this man is horrific. He was following a child. Whether that kid was Black or not, all he knew was that a stranger, possibly a child molester or kidnapper was after him. If I had been that young man, I would have done a million times worse. I would have scratched his face off and hit him with rocks or whatever else I could find!!! Zimmerman is not a policeman and he has no authority to detain anyone.
And then you expect us to believe that though he spent $50,000 of the money prior to telling the court he didn’t have any, he did not know he had the money and its somehow his attorney’s fault???
Blame EVERYBODY but the one person who caused all of this, whose fault this is, who is the reason that boy is dead and who lied to the court – George Zimmerman!
Bash:
My recollection is, I have put up over 15 posts now on this all around horrible tragedy. I have pretty much tried and convicted everyone involved close by and afar, except the current trial judge and the jury, if such comes into being. I have caught flack from all quarters, and have been applauded from some quarters. You are do slack because you apparently have not seen the earlier posts, which you might wish to peruse in the gmb.com archives at your leisure. Perhaps doing so will shift your outlook, perhaps not; but you will see, regardless of that, I came down really hard on George Zimmerman a bunch of times. You are right, I have said it often: it indeed appears George Zimmerman is the one person who caused all of this, whose fault this is, who is the reason that boy is dead and who lied to the court during his bond hearing. I do not believe he lied about getting beaten within an inch of his life by that boy, though; just as I do not believe he was walking back to his car and that boy chased him down and attacked him. I prefer, however, to use their real names, as that boy, sadly, still carries racial overtones.
Beautiful Things:
I said that boy as in that young male, not as a race insult. I haven’t seen the earlier posts. I found this website doing a Google search to find out why Zimmerman’s bail was revoked, beyond the superficial reporting in the media.
That being said, I do not support Zimmerman at all in this case. I think he is a wanna-be cop and a spoiled brat who has gotten used to his father cleaning up his messes. There was a story in my hometown paper, The NY Daily News about his having been fired from being a bouncer because he picked a woman up and literally THREW HER. He has anger issues and I do not believe that he acted calmly or reasonably that night. I also do not believe that he brandished the weapon AFTER the fight started. Logically, if TM was over him hitting him, TM would not have been able to see the weapon at GZ’s waist. I believe that his brandishing that weapon is what LED TO the fight. Also, he said TM was banging his head into concrete and he shot him in fear for his life but TM’s body was found on the grass…I really do not believe this man at all. I think he is a liar.
Bash:
I kinda feel the same way about Zimmerman’s profile – a wanna be cop … The problem the special prosecutor has, Zimmerman is the only surviving eye witness to how the altercation unfolded. Because of that, the special prosecutor will have to try to convince the judge, and if a jury is selected, the jury that Zimmerman cannot be believed. I always felt Zimmerman shaded the truth about how the confrontation came about. I have a hard time believing, however, that Martin attacked a man with a gun in his hand. Maybe that’s what happened. I wasn’t there. Maybe Zimmerman had the gun in his waist band and Martin saw it and that provoked the attack. Maybe Martin had Zimmerman down on the sidewalk, banging his head against the pavement, and that is when Zimmerman pulled the gun. You believe Zimmerman banged his own head against the pavement and broke his own nose and had black eyes the next day, which is about how long it takes black eyes to develop based on my own personal experience with black eyes? You believe Martin banged Zimmerman’s head against the grass and caused that level of bleeding on the back of Zimmerman’s head? Martin beat Zimmerman up and might well have killed him if Zimmerman had not shot Martin. The photos and the police testimony will support Zimmerman’s injuries all the way, based on all I have see on TV and read in online news reports. Were I the judge, I would not go along with the stand your ground defense for the reason Zimmerman was told by the police dispatcher to stand down, and the way it looks to me, Zimmerman kept following Martin. Were I the judge, I went before many judges in a past life, when I practiced law, I clerked for a US District Judge who presided over every criminal trial prosecuted by the US Attorney in the Northern District of Alabama, I would let the jury decide what happened that horrible night. I would do that because I could not say I myself knew what happened that night, and that is enough to let it go to the jury. God help the jury if it acquits. God help America if the jury acquits. It might go just as bad if the jury convicts. Just as bad for the jury, and for America. Looks to me Zimmerman is seriously screwed any way it goes. Screwed humanly and spiritually. And, that stunt over his finances at the bail hearing, how can that be erased from a juror’s mind? But, alas, what if there is an all-white jury? What happens if there is an all-black jury? Or a mixed race jury? Race is in play here, despite Zimmerman being half-hispanic. The Black KKK is just as dangerous as the White KKK. What a snapshot of how screwed up America has become, and President Obama, US Attorney General Holder, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, who darn well ought to have known better, really egged it on. And now, the Neo Nazis are chiming in. Might be, before it’s all said and done, our troops have to be brought home to protect Americans from Americans. All because George Zimmerman killed that boy. I did not think you meant it racially when you said that boy. I meant it both ways when I said it. For, sadly, that’s how it is being viewed by so many Americans.
Post-script: If a jury is selected, I hope they do better keeping their emotions out of their listening to the testimony and their deliberations than the public is doing. Meanwhile, I wish the national news media would stop using outdated photos of Trayvon Martin. You can bet the ranch George Zimmerman’s defense lawyer will try to use photos of the boy George Zimmerman claims nearly beat him to death. Maybe the trial judge will disallow any photos of Trayvon Martin. But if the trial judge lets in one photo of Trayvon offered by the special prosecutor into evidence, that opens the door for the defense to get into evidence other photos of Trayvon. And, I imagine, if the trial judge lets into evidence past not beautiful things done by George Zimmerman, that opens the door for the defense to get into evidence past not beautiful things done by Trayvon Martin.
It was written, “beauty is truth, truth beauty, – that is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know” …
Jesus told people if they abided in him they would come to know the truth and the truth would set them free …
I once was told …
All fig leaves burn
All ugly seen
All pain loved
All truth beauty
All people one
All time now
“The problem the special prosecutor has, Zimmerman is the only surviving eye witness to how the altercation unfolded.”
-That is not a problem for the Prosecutor. That’s a given in any criminal trial, that the accused has their version of events which always supports them being innocent or justified in having committed whatever crime the Prosecutor must PROVE they committed. The Burden of Proof is on the Prosecutor and it can be met with forensic evidence, witness testimony and other evidence. The version of the events according to the defendant is the last thing a Prosecutor should expect to help make the State’s case.
“I have a hard time believing, however, that Martin attacked a man with a gun in his hand. Maybe that’s what happened. I wasn’t there. Maybe Zimmerman had the gun in his waist band and Martin saw it and that provoked the attack. ”
-The problem I have with that is if TM was over GZ beating him and banging his head on the ground like GZ says, HOW would TM have been able to see it at his waistband??? How did he get his hands up in front of TM’s chest without him having no reaction, not having backed up or stopped hitting him (which would mean the fight was over) or TM’s fingerprints being on the gun? How was he able to get the gun out of his waistband and off safety with Travon Martin on top of him??? Physically, explain to me how that would have been physically possible because I have acted it out and its NOT possible.
In Trayvon Martin’s situation I would have definitely tried and grabbed the gun to take it from this psycho or incapacitate this man. People are acting like TM is the scary person here but that is a function of their own racial thinking- Black guy =scary. More logically, a stranger in a truck following you and coming out of the truck after you, (if there was any doubt in your mind that he was after YOU) when you finally get away, is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy scarier.
TM had no way of knowing Zimmerman’s preconceived hangups about hoodies or Black people. All he knew, as its common damn sense, is that following anybody is not NORMAL behavior. So when someone who is already not acting normally comes after you, there is nothing you can do that is not in self-defense. You don’t know what is wrong with them or if they are armed, as Zimmerman was. There’s no reason why you should do anything but whatever it takes to get away from them in defense of your life.
“Race is in play here, despite Zimmerman being half-hispanic.”
Race is in play because George Zimmerman went after a Black kid, specifically because he was Black, like the people believed to be responsible for the burglaries in the community and therefore in his opinion, suspicious. This case has been about race from the very beginning of it and saying that its not is dishonest to me.
“Meanwhile, I wish the national news media would stop using outdated photos of Trayvon Martin.”
-I could see what you were saying if TM looked substantially different at any stage in his life. He’s one of those people whose had the same face since babyhood. I’ve seen baby pics of him and have known automatically, “Oh that’s Trayvon Martin.”, he also has a brother whose a dead ringer for him.
“You can bet the ranch George Zimmerman’s defense lawyer will try to use photos of the boy George Zimmerman claims nearly beat him to death. Maybe the trial judge will disallow any photos of Trayvon Martin.”
-There’s no reason to do that. And I don’t see how he can exclude autopsy photos which will show Trayvon Martin, dead…In contrast to the two nicks on the back of zimmerman’s head and the three or four scratches on his face.
“But if the trial judge lets in one photo of Trayvon offered by the special prosecutor into evidence, that opens the door for the defense to get into evidence other photos of Trayvon.”
- Which show him to be a regular 17-year old KID. The jury will come from a pool of regular people, who will probably know 17 year olds. In the video of Trayvon shown of him in the 7-11, some more young people come in after he leaves and they appear to be white teens. They are wearing hoodies, their jeans low, and don’t look any different from Trayvon Martin. So he did not appear to be greatly different from the other kids in the community where the jury should be experiencing some great culture shock.
“And, I imagine, if the trial judge lets into evidence past not beautiful things done by George Zimmerman, that opens the door for the defense to get into evidence past not beautiful things done by Trayvon Martin.”
The difference is evidence of past not beautiful things done by Zimmerman will be material to his character and frame of mind, history of aggression and credibility. Whatever not beautiful things done by Trayvon Martin are immaterial because a) Zimmerman did not know about them, as he did not know trayvon martin, b) TM was not doing anything “not beautiful” when he was killed that might have led to his death and c) nothing gave George Zimmerman the right to take a look at him and decide he needed to take some sort of action, let alone killing him. Even if he were the biggest gangbanger with a mouthful of gold teeth and tattoos all over his face and neck, NO ONE should have a right to shoot him dead in the street for that.
And you are right, I do have Zimmerman convicted of this in my mind, for whatever its worth. He was totally 1,000% in the wrong for following that young person, he was not the leader of any registered watch program or he would have known he is not supposed to be patrolling ARMED, for crying out loud and his injuries are not serious enough to have killed over. It’s not right to me for you to pull out a gun and shoot someone for beating you up in a FIST fight!
good thing you are not in the jury pool … hope the lawyers keep off the jury anyone who has already made up his/her mind, otherwise, we might as well be having this case tried in some place like Syria, Iran, Communist China, North Korea … God help the jurors, if they get this case and acquit Zimmerman … God help the jurors, if they get this case and convict him … God help America any way it goes, with Black KKK and white KKK and no telling what all kind of crazies and opportunists on the loose …
Actually, it is the law in every state in this country, even states which do not have stand your ground laws, which Florida does have, if you are getting beat up by someone and you fear for your life — that’s a subjective issue, is the fear reasonable? – and you are carrying a gun and you do not feel you can safely retreat -that, too, is a subject issue, it is reasonable in the circumstance to believe retreat is not safe or feasible – yes, you can shoot and kill the person beating you up. If a prosecution is initiaged, self-defense is allowed, and the defendant is allowed to state what happened and what he/she believed to be his/her peril and possibility of retreat. And then it is given to the jury to decide it. If the judge in the Zimmerman prosecution lets the case go to the jury, which is not yet decided, the judge may rule the stand your law ground applies and dismiss the case, but if the judge lets the case go to the jury, they will decide if it was self defense. They, the jurors will decide. Not the judge, not the special prosecutor. Not George Zimmerman. Not Zimmmerman’s lawyer. Not Trayvon Martin’s parents. Not George Zimmmerman’s parents. Not you. Not me. Not the blacks, not the whites, not the hispanics. The jury will decide it, just as the jury decided the Casey Anthony case, just as the jury decided the O.J. Simpson case, just as the jury decided the Rodney King case. None of those other three high-profile cases went the way probably 99 percent of the viewing public felt those cases should go. I find myself wondering if you yourself, or someone close to you, has suffered servere trauma caused by another, and if that is coloring your zeal in this horrible tragedy. You seem to me to be feeding on it, as if you have personally identified with Trayvon Martin and you will be irreparably damaged if justice as you view it is not dispensed. That’s your perogative, but it looks to me that it is eating you up inside, which I don’t imagine is good for you spiritually. Jesus would tell Zimmerman to not mount a defense. Jesus would tell Trayvon’s parents to go public and beg blacks and whites allied with them to chill out, it’s not their problem, it’s the Martins’ problem and the special prosecutor’s problem. Jesus might even tell the Martins to find it in their hearts to forgive George Zimmerman, who seems beyond able to admit he did anything wrong; he’s not in his right mind, because he clearly did very wrong. The people lining up on both sides of this don’t look to me like they are in their right minds, either.
“I find myself wondering if you yourself, or someone close to you, has suffered servere trauma caused by another, and if that is coloring your zeal in this horrible tragedy. You seem to me to be feeding on it, as if you have personally identified with Trayvon Martin and you will be irreparably damaged if justice as you view it is not dispensed. That’s your perogative, but it looks to me that it is eating you up inside, which I don’t imagine is good for you spiritually. ”
-Nothing of the sort, lmao. If Zimmerman is acquitted it will just reinforce my views on race and justice. I will not join any marches or protests or have it “affect” me any way. I just live in this world, I didn’t make it. I work with young people. I won’t say anything beyond that, but I work with young people 13-18. I see them grow thru the stages of adolescence and I see the process of their growing up. I often see those same young people years later and they are never exactly where they were at 18 or so as when I see them again, even if its just a year or two later. They have grown. I feel terribly for Trayvon Martin that he will never have a chance to grow beyond seventeen. I feel worse for his parents and his siblings. My cousin died at 16 and my cousins, his brothers and sisters, NEVER got “over it”. I remember what it was like when he just wasn’t there anymore. Its a hurt that doesn’t heal.
Further, its not a “horrible tragedy”. Its the MURDER of a seventeen year old kid under suspicious and contentious circumstances by someone with a history of violence while on psychiatric medications. A horrible tragedy is an act of God, something none of us could have done anything about, something we were powerless to prevent. George Zimmerman walking around with a gun – judge, jury and executioner- is NOT that.
“The people lining up on both sides of this don’t look to me like they are in their right minds, either.”
-Because there is so much propaganda and dishonesty in how this and other issues are portrayed. The media has shaped all of this. They picked the picture of TM at twelve years old and then they started the uproar about it being a picture of him at 12 years old. They have set the parameters of the debate with racist whites being made to feel that their view (both parties were somehow in the wrong here, even the kid that was killed… somehow; Zimmerman’s version of the events is credible, MUST be factual and whether we believe it or not must be the barometer by which we gauge our objectivity; Blacks are superhumanly strong and savage and they are dangerous and even a little scrawny one, 6’2″ and 150 lbs can kill ya wit his bare hands!) is the rational one and that everyone else must be out of their right mind to not see Zimmerman’s side in this.
Black people do not have guns, political power or the means to deprive White people of their rights. Their being angry about something is largely a non-issue. If they even talk about racism or its effects in their lives now they are accused of “playing the race-card” whether what they are saying is a known fact or not and for many Black people not only is this nothing new, this is not even the most egregious case of being told that black life simply doesn’t matter. Like I said, just like after Hurricane Katrina where, while the media was up in arms with stories about Blacks raping, looting and gangbanging which ALL turned out to be lies, the real danger was from rednecks with big guns and small brains, the real danger here is from the “I am George Zimmerman” crowd who don’t understand why this Black boy couldn’t just submit to George Zimmerman’s authority as a whiteman, and answer his questions, allay his anxieties and prove to Zimmerman that he wasn’t up to no good…or why George Zimmerman should be in anyway troubled for killing a child when he was just trying to protect property and prevent a burglary. Just as the rednecks in the aftermath of Katrina killed people trying to escape because they knew what they would do in desperate circumstances, the real danger is in what these people’s reactions are going to be to whatever perceived threat is formed in their own minds.
And for clarification, here’s the definition of self-defense, legally:
“A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack.
Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack.
Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force.”
- Trayvon Martin was NOT using deadly force. He is not a professional boxer or militarily trained to use his body as a weapon.
“In some cases, before using force that is likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to the aggressor, a person who is under attack should attempt to retreat or escape, but only if an exit is reasonably possible.”
If it was not possible for Zimmerman to escape because TM was sitting on him, how was he able to get the gun out and off of safety? He’s getting his head “slammed” into concrete, screaming for help because although he is a grown man at peak physical strength who used to be a bouncer, he cannot fight a 150 lb teenager (?!) but he somehow got out a gun, took it off safety and shot Trayvon Martin and then got the dead weight off him without getting any of TM’s blood on his clothes or person….
“Courts have held, however, that a person is not required to flee from his own home, the fenced ground surrounding the home, his place of business, or his automobile.
A person who is the initial aggressor in a physical encounter may be able to claim self-defense if the tables turn in the course of the fight.”
-So even if for whatever stupid reason, TM decided to go back and look for the stranger who had been following him, a stranger who could be armed… some sort of kidnapper or pervert… or who could have other people in there with him in the backseat of the truck… instead of walking home as fast as he could, since he told his girlfriend he wouldn’t run, even if he at any point became the aggressor, and wen’t to go look for Zimmerman to confront him and provoke the fight, when Zimmerman brandished the gun, anything TM did became SELF DEFENSE.
“Generally a person who was the aggressor may use nondeadly force if the victim resumes fighting after the original fight ended. If the original aggressor attacked with nondeadly force and was met with deadly force in return, the aggressor may respond with deadly force.”
-So when TM was on top of him and he pulled the gun out according to his story, Zimmerman introduced Deadly Force into the fight. Why he didn’t use the threat of shooting him to make Trayvon Martin Back down, I will never know.